Comment

Comment by Dr. Henry, President of the AOCI on July 13, 2010 at 6:41am

Mick, again, though I appreciate your enthusiasm I would challenge you to re-consider your hermeunutical position. Time will not allow me to expand but keep studying bother.

Sincerely, Dr. Henry

Comment by Mick Alexander on July 13, 2010 at 3:41am

Dear Henry,

Thanks for your comment on the video on tongues. A couple of quick points are:
1) Eph 4:4-5 tells us that there is only one faith and one hope and Tit 2:13 tells us that that that hope is in the glorious appearing of Jesus. Obviously, when Jesus appears then our hope will no longer exist so hope cannot go on into eternity - "hope that is seen is no hope at all" (Rom 8:24). Also, 1 Pet 1:9 says that we are receiving the end, the consumation, the termination, the goal of our faith which is the salvation of our souls. Since our salvation will be completed when we see Jesus then our faith in Him for our final salvation must end at that point in time. To say that hope and faith will continue on into eternity is to redefine their clear biblical meaning.
2) Regarding knowing God fully, surely that will never occur because we can never fully know God's mind. He know us fully of course but we will never know Him fully so "knowing fully" can't be referring to knowing Him fully.

Regarding what the perfect is, something that you may not have considered is this. In v.8 there are three gifts mentioned - tongues, prophecy and knowledge. However, in vs. 9-10, which speak about the coming of the perfect, only prophecy and knowledge are mentioned - tongues has been dropped. This means that the perfect has nothing to do with gifts in general, nor tongues, but only prophecy and knowledge. So, the coming of the perfect would not affect all gifts but just prophecy and knowledge. This begs the questions, "Why is the perfect related to only two of the gifts?" and "What else, besides the Bible, is perfect and would affect ONLY prophecy and knowledge?" The answer cannot be the return of Jesus as that will affect all gifts. Once again, the fact that the gift of tongues has been removed from vs.9-10 tell us that these verses are not talking about the cessation of gifts in general, nor tongues ceasing, but only the cessation of prophecy and knowledge and only the Bible fits.

There are other points I could make but I don't want to ramble on too much.

God bless Henry,
Mick

Comment by Dr. Henry, President of the AOCI on July 12, 2010 at 10:46pm

Rev. Alexander, I really like the production of your video though I must disagree with your exegetical position of the gifts to include tongues. There are countless millions of born again believers who are still experiencing the gifts of the spirit to include the gift of tongues as the early church did (see 1 Cor. Chapter 12). Allow me to provide you with my commentary on the following verses of 1 Cor. chapter 13:

Vs8-10 We won’t need these spiritual gifts once we are in heaven. The gifts are to be used while we are here on earth (Acts 2:16-20). Prominent and notable Greek biblical scholars (as well as myself) are in agreement that the meaning of “that which is perfect” is a reference to the coming of Christ and is not a reference to when the bible was complete. Some denominations (or Christians) will attempt to use this as a passage to support that the gifts are not to operate through the church during this dispensation (church age) but the context and the Greek does not support this thought. No other exegetically position is even remotely possible. Our understanding and knowledge is still partial and has not changed even when the New Testament was completed. The scripture following the apostolic age make it clear that the gifts did NOT come to a stop with the closing of the New Testament Cannon.
Vs. 11-12 Paul continues to illustrate his meaning further by comparing a child’s ways with a man’s was in terms of reaching full maturity which we will only happen once we get to heaven. Paul also uses the illustration of a mirror used in those days made out of polished bronze which was hard to see yourself through. When we step into heaven we will know God exactly as he is and to the same degree that He knows us now. In other words, our senses, intellect and bodies will undergo a miraculous transformation. Since we are looking through a dark and dim glass it is hard to sometimes understand the things of the Spirit of God. I believe this to be the case with Christians who struggle with the gifts of the Spirit. Some teach that the gifts were primarily given for accredidation of the Apostles and are not needed now and have passed away but the book of acts clearly shows ordinary believers being used in the gifts of the spirit and so scripture demonstrates that the gifts are for today as they continued during the early church history.
Vs. 13 The gifts are temporary blessings given to the believer but what is permanent is faith, hope and love with love being the greater of the three. Notice that Paul says that love is the greater of these three which are permanent but Paul is not saying that faith, hope and love is Greater than the gifts. Things that God gives temporarily are not less than things he gives permanently. The entire context and point of what Paul is saying is that the gifts practiced with love are powerful and is the correct way to practice these gifts.